I’ll take the opportunity here to link to a discussion on EGO OUT by brilliant fellow LENR analyst Peter Gluck.
These lines by Jed Rothwell commenting Peters point of view on the E-Cat story almost caught me breathless.
You have too much experience with oppression. Living under communism, you apparently never learnt the lessons taught to small children in democracies, that a person must ALWAYS give both side a chance to speak before deciding who is right.You are conducting a sort of communist style kangaroo court where one party (I.H.) is declared guilty before they get a chance to speak in their own defense. You have no idea what they have to say, but you are sure it is wrong!
What is Jed thinking? The only way to see it is Jed trying to act authoritarian. Trying to teach Peter how to judge statements and people. Well, actually he is trying to teach Peter to put more value in the very vague IH spins, than in the legal complaint filed by Rossi.
Not to mention Jed’s earlier rants, all of them using his perceived authority on the subject as prime a argument; be it labeling more or less everyone with an Italian name a idiot or fraud, or sharing his immense trust in some imaginary IH entity view on the MW test, etc.
What Jed totally misses is that if there is anything to be learned from living in former communist dictatorships like Romania (actually it is true in semi communist countries like Sweden as well), then it is to NOT trust anyone using any kind of authoritarian (listen to me, I know better, I have more information, bla bla.) type arguments.
And in this story all these kind of arguments comes from one side – IH. Even in their press release, this was all they said … think about it … when someone carefully says – trust only me – on faith only, does that increase or decrease credibility? All they’ve done so far is to very vaguely state they have not received all IP needed to substantiate Rossi’s claims. And then they furiously spin FUD, ad-homs and fraud accusations through their paid and unpaid cryptodenialists using some kind of authority as argument. This comment was directed at Peter as well. Here besserwisser Jed is making multiple headspins …
I know enough information to judge these things with confidence. You, on the other hand, know nothing about them. All you have to go on are Rossi’s assertions from his blog.
Yeah! Sounds really convincing, not like spin at all … Very reliable … Really?
Another Jed example directed at me:
I do not think you should take sides in this argument between Rossi and I.H. until you have had a chance to see what I.H. says in response to the lawsuit. It is a bad idea to pick sides when you have only read what one side has to say. There is a great deal about this situation that you do not know.
If Rossi is right you will have plenty of time to attack I.H. later on. If he is wrong, defending him will not do him any good, and it will make you look like a fool. I advise you to suspend judgement and wait.
Jed has here taken it upon himself to keep us quiet and to not defend Rossi before the trial. To keep everything calm … To not look into the immense inconsistencies and backpedaling from Weaver and fellow spinners. Who could benefits from this do you think? Just asking …
Finally, to be absolutely honest. Someone trying to give me advise this authoritarian way instantly sets all my alarm bells off. There is absolutely no single way a comment like the one above can be honest. If anything, Jed is confirming IH spinning BS.
Last note about human judgment and understanding Rossi’s world class endurance and perseverance. Imagine yourself running close to 438 laps on a 400m track during 24 hours and then having your shoes carefully cut off by a doctor … Does this come forward to you as a person who cheats, defrauds and cut corners?
If you do, do what Rossi did first, and then we talk again.
Excellent Torkel!
Luis
Hi Sifferkoll
Rothwell’s latest attempt at Journalism(re: Kidwell)was based on very poor information. Who cares.. the Navy and Kidwell are out of LENR anyway., thank God
Rothwell’s assertion to be THE information authority in LENR is already outdated.
He should recognize that the LENR network has steadily expanded and he is being left on the outer. There are many other sources of information that are available.. as compared to ten years ago when he was a prominent voice crying in the wilderness.
He needs to find another thing to do.. maybe running marathons.
Yes, I was surprised to read that he still thinks the MW test was the one with ~20kW E-Cats, not the new one outlined in the latest contract amendment, with 4(+2) x 250kW.
Running marathons is actually a good way to clear the mind, allthough slightly painfull. A 24hr race, Rossi told me, brings you into a “metaphysical” state. I’m not sure I’m ready for that level of pain yet 🙂
Why is Jed Rothwell going round saying there would be 100’s of KW of waste heat?
It’s ridiculous.
Any fool can look up the thermal conductivity (K-value) of, say, PIR insulation.
Then you can estimate the external area of each 250KW ecat module.
Then, knowing the temperature difference between the steam and the interior of the shipping container, you can calculate how thick the insulation would need to be to limit any heat loss to 1%… Which is about what the air-con unit in the shipping container can handle, according to the photographs.
Hint: It’s around 70-80mm. And you can buy PIR sheet at a hardware store.
You don’t need to be a HVAC technician to work this out, it’s called Fourier’s Law, and it’s pretty basic stuff.
Losses through pipework are similarly negligible if lagged properly. This is because of the relatively small surface area.
Comparing it to commercial boilers is daft: They burn gas. Gas burns at high temperature. These high temperatures are harder to contain. The e-cat is easier to insulate, both because it works at lower temperatures, and because there’s no combustion to ventilate.
With a normal boiler, a large amount of waste heat is going straight out of the flue. That’s a major cause of their crappy 70%+ efficiency.
Also, Jed consistently seems to forget that Rossi and his team most of the time stayed in a second container with its own HVAC. Even if it was extremely hot in the 1MW container, that wouldn’t have hindered them from visiting it from time to time as anyone who has ever been to the sauna can confirm from his own experience. A sauna typically reaches around 100°C (the plant’s operating temperature) and is easily bearable for 15-30 minutes. In fact, it is the extremely high humidity in a sauna which amplifies the effect of the heat on the body. In a low humidity environment such high heat would be tolerable for an even longer period of time.
I believe in LENR. I do not believe any of Rossi’s claims
I predict the law suit will be settled out of court.
I have no idea what the terms will be.
Well, I know you dont.
Your prediction might come true though. All IH needs to do to settle is to agree on cancelling the license agreement in full (and probably pay something for the damage they caused, but nowhere near $89M)
Sifferkoll you are awsome guy and hitting all the points right on, clearly Rossi was scammed by Industrial Heat and we know where the tech went to Brillouin Energy where they plan to lock it up for commercial use only.
Darden wanted to claim they were the inventors of Cold Fusion but we all know Rossi is the man that cracked the code.
OOPS! Turns out Mr Rothwell was a bit hasty in calling Penon an “idiot”…
The HotCat report from August 2012, signed by Penon, containing a few notable errors, was not written by Penon. Penon assisted at a test on August 7, 2012, repeating an experiment made on July 16, 2012. The report was written on the July test, and Penon was only confirming that similar results were obtained on the August test. Penon told me this in an interview in September, 2012. You could of course accuse Penon of not having studied the original report sufficiently before signing it, but the errors were not a result of Penon’s work.
https://animpossibleinvention.com/blog/
Doh! …Mr Rothwell compounds his thermodynamic errors:
“It matters because it is quite impossible to fit industrial equipment using this much process heat into a 6,500 sq. ft. facility, and the claim itself is prima facie proof of fraud. It is preposterous.”
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg109870.html
I guess he hasn’t watched this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2VIV0ZsI9c
That engine is producing 2MW or mechanical energy and 1MW of heat. In a room much smaller than 6,500 sq. ft
I am not a scientist and so would not presume to offer any scientific analyses, e.g., of how much waste heat might be generated in any particular LENR scenario.
At the same time, I also know that Jed Rothwell is not a scientist.
What would compel him to weigh in on such technical matters?
According to Jed, his education in heat transfer seems to have taken place during a visit to a ship’s engine room, where it would have been too hot if it wasn’t for some large fans.
(we should ignore the fact that ships engines are generally 10 or 100x more powerful).
To be fair, his LENR/CANR site is pretty cool.
Now it becomes quite embarrassing for Jed:
Robert Dorr wrote:
> I have seen pictures of the roof and there were two industrial type fans on
> the roof where the production was taking place.
Actually, sources tell me those are over the reactor, not the production
area.
You would need ventilation over both.
– Jed
Robert was of course refering to what anyone can see on google maps for the given address (7861 NW 46th St, Doral, FL 33166, USA). Two large vents, one between the front and the middle third of the building (probably just next to the office room part of the building which is usually at the front and right above the warehouse space where the production area must have been), one at the middle of the back third (above the loading docks where the container must have been).
Jed seems to blindly trust everything he is fed by his “sources”.
[quote=’Dewey Weaver’,’https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/3232-To-discus-the-science-behind-the-dispute-between-Rossi-and-Industrial-Heat/?postID=20376#post20376′]Well the simulation is in. I’ve learned that the SINGLE roof vent had a broken exhaust fan. The two fans over the 1MW unit were both broken and did not work for most of the test. One would work for a little while before throwing a breaker so they left it off. The other roof “vent” is a skylight.[/quote]
Regarding Rothwell’s ‘misunderstanding’, as found by Timar above, I think we have uncovered the FUD supply-chain in action.
(posted in correct place…)
Also, Rothwell and Weaver have both been repeating the same nonsense about the container unit massively overheating, as mentioned in the comments above.
Rothwell’s “secret source” (ha!) is obviously Weaver, a loud mouth who clearly comes from the throw-enough-shit-and-some-will-stick school of thought.
…As also practised by Mary Yugo…
Jed had the field LENR field pretty much to himself for 10 years and got comfortable in that position. He was praying for the day when he would be the one breaking some LENR story from someone in his camp. Rossi appearing really upset his world and caught him off guard and hes now smarting that he finds himself sidelined and unlistened too and not the world authority he likes to belive he is.